Results tagged “engine” from Pantera #2245

I recently developed a leak in my gas tank and due to the fine Italian engineering you must pull the motor to get the tank out. Since the motor was out I decided to open it up and refresh things. We've put 4 open road races ( including one at 5800 for 35 minutes ), 6 track events, and many road miles.

I opened up the manifold to find that two of my Comp Cams roller lifters had worn badly on the roller due to bearing failure or over tightning. Also the two cam lobes were also worn. Additionally I found one coil spring which lost a coil and broke.

After all my bragging about how this motor has held up despite the roller lifter setup, she finally had it. I do have to give some props to Comp Cams, after I called them with my situation they give me a big discount on replacement parts.

Intersting turn of events today. I want to ask for the lists help in
diagnosing the engine problem. As most of you know I have recently restored
this car and have only had ( #2245 ) on the road for a shore time ( about
3000 miles ).

Last weekend I adjusted my valves on the drivers side. Previous week I
adjusted the valves on the passenger side. This weekend I wanted to do some
carb work to get ready for autox tomorrow. I went down the shop today and
we came to the conclusion the car was running way to rich. We started the
day with #80 jets in the secondaries, then #72 in the primaries. At the end
of the day we ended up with #70 in the secondaries and #65 in the primary.
I took the car out for a trip down to get some Mobile one oil, it was
running great. I then took it for a 3 mile jaunt down the freeway and back
to the shop to change the oil to Mobil one synth. I changed the oil and
left the shop for my 10 mile trip home.

Crusing down the freeway in 5th gear about half way home i started to hear
a popping noise coming from the engine or exhaust. The popping noise
sounded like a leak in the exhaust like a small backfire. It only happened
when i accelerated. Within the next 5 miles it got worse. The popping got
louder till it was a banging. The noise was not mechanical though.
Something is wrong with the combustion. I coasted for awhile and the motor
almost died but was quiet when I wasn't accelerating. The banging got
worste as I tried to give it gas, so much so that I was afraid of causing
more damage by driving it. I pulled over and called the auto club for a
tow.

I haven't had a chance to diagnose the issue yet, that will probably start
tomorrow. Two immediate things come to mind, burnt valve and some wierd
timing issue. I may have setup the car too lean or I may have had the
valves too tight. I will pull the plugs tomorrow and do a compression check
first thing.

Ahhh .. The pantera gods shone upon thee this day!!!

Thanks for everyone's input on diagnosing my engine issue. It turns out
that I either forgot or didn't tighten the adjustment nut on the rocker arm
enough and it vibrated it's way off the pushrod and decided to not open the
exhaust valve anymore. This meant that the intake valve opened and but no
more stuff could get in, and it had to get spit back into the intake,
causing big booms.

So moral of the story, make sure your rocker arm adjustment nuts are tight.
I feel like i've won the lottery!

I played hooky from work on friday and spent most of the day doing wiring work in preperation for starting the motor. Saturday we made final preperations for running the engine. I ran a switch from the dash to the relay to power the ignition system and fuel pump. Then I ran a new power line from the battery to the amp meter. I did this because I am not utilzing a starter selinoed from the firewall anymore. Instead I ran a new power cable from the battery to the starter. So the only engine bay wires i am going to use are the alternator power and activation wires, start ignition wire, gas tank sender wires, and oil and temp guage wires. All the rest are not used or replaced.

We got the new exhaust sytem to align properly by basically hanging off it to bend it a bit. With a little sweat the whole thing lined up properly. I looks great too, and we didnt have to heat it which would have ruined the jet-hot coating. I filled the motor with oil, the transmission with lube, and the cooling system with water. Since I work on this car at an automotive shop in an industrial part of town, as soon as we hit the starter button about thirty people gathered around to see the 3 year old project come to life. I manned the carb and my brother in-law manned the starter button ( remote starter button, key wasn't wired up yet ). It started after three cranks! I kept the motor alive with the throttle and was amazed at the sound. This is a 408 stroker motor with solid roller lifter cam and a GTS exhaust system, the sound was amazing. The throttle response was great, the aluminum flywheel helps with that as does the A3 heads with spider single plane intake. The crowd was just amazed at the sound of the motor and the amount of rocking the car was doing when the motor was reved. The Electromotive HPV-1 ignition worked flawlessly, timing was perfect the first time, no muss, no fuss.

I was so excited I had to call my wife on the cell phone so she could hear it as well. After 3 years and close to $50,000 this a monumental milestone for this project. I have to make a driver out of the car now. I need all the guages and electrics working, and driver controls to complete as well. Words cannot describe my excitement.

pantera.wav

Tomorrow is a big day. I get my completed motor back from Al Liest. Im going to go pick it up and take to the shop where the car is. It basically ended up a $10,000 motor, $2000 labor, $3000 in A3 heads, manifold, connecting rods, and $5000 in other parts to put together the long block. I will post the list of full parts once I get it from Al. I also ordered some bulk head fittings to install a new fuel pickup tube in my gas tank. I should be able to finish that this weekend in preperation for installing the motor. I picked up two front Michelin Sport tires for the car, they were used from a friend $20 each. They only have maybe 15k miles left, but for $20 im not complaining. I installed the front calipers and the brake lines. It's hard to see the brake calipers with the bright wheels, but that won't prevent them from working great when stopping the car. I also installed the front lower brace that keeps the frame from flexing. I will be purchasing my rear tires soon.

I got a call from Al Leist saying my motor was about to be assembled and to come take some pictures. So I ran down there during lunchtime and took a couple of photos. The camshaft, crank, and timing gear is on the block. The pistons and rods were laying on the bench. Some nice pieces include the custom pistons which are nicely dished to match the A3 heads, a custom made aluminum flywheel, and a nice steel harmonic dampener. The pistons have a 20cc dish which should put the compression ratio down to around 10.5:1. Should be just right for street gas. The motor assembly should finish up this week. I should take delivery next week.

Another Christmas has gone by and it's 2003! Could this be the year my Pantera finally sees the highway again? Things look right. I'm still waiting on the motor from Al Leist. He ran into a snag with the rods I gave him. I gave him some Eagle 6.2" chevy rods which when I was planning a Windsor stroker would have worked great. However since I couldn't find a manifold to mate my A3 heads to the Windsor block, we had to go with the Clevland block. That .25" difference in the deck height, means these connecting rods will not fit. So Al is off finding me some new connecting rods, 6". The block is prepared and the SCAT stroker crank has been balanced with my new aluminum flywheel, damper, and clutch pressure plate. So all the heavy work has been done. He already has the custom pistons in hand as well. So we are only waiting for the connecting rods and he can do the final assembly. I will be taking delivery of the long block. I will still have to add the water pump, valve covers, and probably oil pump and pan. Al is also looking for an oil pan for the motor, so I may not need to install those items. It shouldn't be too much longer now til I get the motor back.

I also have the rebuilt transmission in hand and that looks great. The only things I need to do yet; install the wiring harness, install the calipers and brake plumbing, install the chassis stiffening kit, install the steering column and gauges, and plumb the cooling system. Of course install the engine and transmission. Here are some more pictures of my progress.

Here is the SCAT stroker crankshaft sitting next to the stock 351C piece. The stroker piece is a 4" stroke with 3" main journal size and chevy size crank pins. The journals wil have be turned down to 2.749" for use in the stock block. At this point I am hoping to buy an SVO block. You can buy the block with either main journal sizes, 3" or 2.749". Most people prefer the smaller diameter journal size due to the amount of heat built up from the larger journal.

Here is a picture of the A3 heads I propose to use on the 408 stroker. I also have aquired a SCAT crank that is stroked to 4" and uses chevy size connecting rod journals. I have purchased two different manifolds for the heads but the Roush was ported out so bad I would have to fill the runners with metal to get it to port match. So I bought another Edelbrock manifold in new condition that I was planning on using.

As of recently though I started thinking about the block and whether or not I really want to use my old CobraJet block. It's a four bolt main block and has not been overbored as far as I can tell. But I don't want to rebuild the motor ever again, that is I want to build this thing once. For $1700 you can buy an SVO block that uses the smaller journal crank main bearings and windsor front assembly. The SVO block can be bored over safely, is stronger, has better oiling system, and cooling system. Also you can get the aluminum version ( Z351 ) from Race Parts Distribution for around $3k. The Z351 can be bored and stroked to accomodate 427 cubes! If budget allows I think this is the best option. Of couse I would only stroke/bore it to 400 or 408 cubes, which should leave me with a very strong, trouble free block. At least thats the plan.

I pulled the engine apart today. 2 connecting rod bearings where spun and most of the rest of them were warn down the to copper. The main bearings where fine. The other wierd thing was all but 1 of the top compression rings where broken and fell out as I pulled the pistons from the block. I don't know what would cause that sort of wide spread breakage. The cylinder walls seem ok. The pistons were very worn and still stock. I verified that I have a Cobra Jet block and crank shaft, for what it's worth.

I also pulled the pedal box and break booster ... what a pain in the ass. It took me more time to pull out that stuff then pulling the engine. Anyway the only thing left to pull now is the suspension. I took the measurements to build a dolly to put the car on for body work and painting.

Engine and transaxle come out today. I was able to do it in 2 hours. One hour better then last time ;) This time I didn't pull the exhaust out and left the motor mounts in the car but removed the mounts from the block. This worked fine except I forgot to pull the oil filter first. This hit the exhaust manifold keeping the engine from coming out.

We have a chainfall in our shop that is directly over the car hoists. This works out pretty good for the pantera. I have really gotten the hang of standing on the tranaxle to balance the engine while using the chainfall to lift the engine out. But when it's time to get off of the transaxle I ussually need a hand.

I pulled off the valve covers and intake manifold and found water inside the engine. Draining the oil I found more water in the oil pan. The water was clean not antifreeze. After removing the heads we found all cylinders and pistons to be clean and no water in the cylinders. The going theory at this point is the water came in from rain down the carb and air cleaner. The air cleaner I was using had an open top with just a foam element.

The block is going to get sonic tested and magnafluxed anyway so I will check for cracks just in case. The heads I have aren't going to get used so even if they are cracked which it doesn't look like then I am not to concerned about them. My A3 heads are on there way and I should have them next week. I still need to locate a manifold for them. I hope to find the A331 manifold or a dual plane that fits the high port heads.

Tomorrow I will disassemble the bottom end of the engine. I expect to find a very loose wrist pin somewhere or broken piston skirt or wrist pin. We did hear knocking in the engine so I expect to find the source of the knocking tomorrow. The top end of the motor looked great. ( It should It's all brand new )

On other fronts I have decided to not put the bumpers back on the car after the body work. So I will ask the body man to fill the bolt hols for me and plan on not putting anything on the back of the car where the bumpers were. The front of the car needs blinkers that used to be held by the bumpers. I will install the behind the screen blinkers. The front of the car needs more cleanup work to run without bumpers. There are two indents in the front that allowed the blinkers in the bumpers to rest in. These indents will need to be filled. Without out chrome on the front it may look funny. I think I would like to install two small round driving lights on either side right below the area of the old blinkers. That would add some detail to the front. And unlike the bumpers that were there the lights would be functional. Bill H. who is on the board of POCA has a car that has lights setup like this. I sent him an email asking about what kind of lights they were and where he got them.

So the spending frenzy begins. Ideally since I only have the weekends available I tried to organize receiving all of the parts before the weekend. This turned out to be pretty hard to do. The first thing to track down was a camshaft. Now I had talked to some people that were running some pretty nasty cams. But they guys who had dynoed their engines and were making 400-500 horsepower were actually running very mild cams.

Taking the advice of one of the members I bought a crower solid lifter camshaft with .592" intake and .607" exhaust. The lobe center was the recommended 106 degrees. I ordered the camshaft and a spring/lifter set from crower. The cam part number is, 15381.

The next item to track down was the stud conversion kit for adjustable rocker arms. This is a crane kit that is commonly used on these engines. The only concern about this kit is that the studs may work themselves out of the head. Installation with locktite is recommended. This is a pretty nice kit. The kit includes studs, pushrod guides, and plastic inserts for the guides. The guide plate is placed into the head first filling the square inset in the rocker pedestal. Then the stud is screwed into the head holding the guideplate in place. The part number is 52655-16.

Most of the parts I ordered from Jegs Automotive. I ordered the Torker II intake from Edelbrock and a 750 Holley mechanical secondary carb. Part numbers 2760 and 4779S. I also wanted to replace the clutch while we were in there. The centerforce clutch seems to be the best option here, the part number is DF021048S. You also need to order a different flywheel since the CenterForce clutch is a 9.5" clutch and the stock clutch is a 10" clutch. You could either order the flywheel from CenterForce, part number 700250-48 or from a pantera vendor.

I also ordered a Moroso 10 quart oil pan from Jegs, part number 710-20560. This a baffled pan that "really" holds 10 quarts of oil. The pan is reasonably priced at $182 but wont fit into the car unless you relocate the parking break bracket.

Other items include an oil pump, oil pick up tube, pushrods, fuel pump and a timing set. The rocker arms I got are Crane full roller rockers for a 7/16" stud. Lastly I purchased a rebuilt gas tank from Hall Pantera.

Once all of the parts were in we could start the work and get #2245 back on the road.